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Russian MoD: Il-20 downed by Syrian missile after attacking Israel’s F-16s used it as cover

Israeli pilots used the Russian plane as cover and set it up to be targeted by the Syrian air defense forces.

The Duran

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Russia has stated that it “reserves right to response” after claiming that Israel’s actions led to downing of Il-20 by Syrian S-200 missiles.

The Russian military accused their Israeli counterparts for causing the downing of a Russian Il-20 plane by the Syrian air defense forces, which were responding to an Israeli air raid on Latakia.

Via RT


The Russian military say the Israeli raid on Syria triggered a chain of events, which led to the shooting down of a Russian Il-20 plane by a Syrian S-200 surface-to-air missile. Moscow reserves the right to respond accordingly.

On Monday evening four Israeli F-16 fighter jets attacked targets in Syria’s Latakia after approaching from the Mediterranean, a statement by the Russian defense ministry said on Tuesday. The Israeli warplanes came at a small altitude and “created a dangerous situation for other aircraft and vessels in the region”, it said.

The military said the French Navy’s frigate “Auvergne” as well as a Russian Il-20 plane were in the area of the Israeli operation.

“The Israeli pilots used the Russian plane as cover and set it up to be targeted by the Syrian air defense forces. As a consequence, the Il-20, which has radar cross-section much larger than the F-16, was shot down by an S-200 system missile,” the statement said.

The Russian ministry stressed that the Israelis must have known that the Russian plane was present in the area, which didn’t stop them from “the provocation”. Israel also failed to warn Russia about the planned operation in advance. The warning came a minute before the attack started, which “did not leave time to move the Russian plane to a safe area,” the statement said.

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Joe
Guest
Joe

Russia reserves the right to respond by inviting Israel to their next victory day parade.

Manon
Guest
Manon

Hey “Joe,” — we hear you. Was it your grandpa Kaganovich who stood next to Stalin during the parades in Moscow? Or you are from Frenkel’s (of GULAG fame) family? Your “Holocaust survivors” prefer to kill by millions, see the Holodomor and GULAG. Nothing pleases your treacherous tribe of whiners more than the exercises in sadism and mass slaughter. Your “Holo-biz” Nuland-Kagan even has installed a Jewish Groysman in Ukraine to finish the job started by Lazar Kaganovich.
Your tribe is cursed not for nothing but for dishonesty, pettiness, and bloodthirstiness. Parasites.

Joe
Guest
Joe

Hey Manon, clearly, speaking in jest is a level of comprehension above your intellectual level. Why are you having a go at me?

Andre
Guest
Andre

Yes, I understood your cynical remark, and a pity it was not understood.

Cheryl Brandon
Guest
Cheryl Brandon

The way to respond is to give Syrians the most up to date equipment to defend themselves the Israhelli terrorist; That is the only way Syria will be safe; Lebanon has to stop assisting Israhell?? as well!! Russia must now arm Hezbollah!!

A.F.
Guest
A.F.

Russia sponsors ISIS allready

Hes
Guest
Hes

Try harder, my “selfchosen” friend. Ask your Hasbara supervisor for some extra Shekels.

mikhas
Guest
mikhas

This is bs since Russian and Syrian defences are meshed, the plane would appear as “friend” not for.

Hes
Guest
Hes

??????? What?

spike
Guest
spike

all aircraft are fitted with an IFF (identifier friend or foe) beacon. but in their haste to launch as many missiles as possible the syrian operators didn’t even bother to look for friendly aircraft in the vicinity of their targeting vector

Hes
Guest
Hes

I see you know exactly nothing about it.

Andre
Guest
Andre

Time for Russia to respond seriously to this provocation and deception.

voza0db
Guest
voza0db

Not a chance!

Hes
Guest
Hes

Evil Khazarian joohole called IsraHell is a pure evil. They can only lie, steal and kill.

Jane Karlsson
Guest
Jane Karlsson

This is shocking. Did Netenyahu order it? I can’t imagine he didn’t know. If he did, he’s openly challenging Putin.

Netenyahu despises ‘weak’ people. He seems to be itching to start WW3 to eliminate the weak people, which of course means the Palestinians among others.

Harris
Guest
Harris

Dont Come an whim or mon here, Russia is ripping is treacherous benefit for its weak stance on Syrian aggressor, even the French Can now slap Russia military and suffer no consequence. Here Will just scream our western Partner! Russia is just à Paper tiger ! Why Syria shouldn’t have an S300 missile to defend itself against immoral action like that is unbelievable ! Now if ont was m’y family member on the Russia IL-20 crew I will Ask Putin to resuscitate my loved one killed in this incident ! The Real culprit us PUTIN, full stop!

Tom
Guest
Tom

Moron!

Manon
Guest
Manon

From now on, each Russian aircraft should carry a Jew as a passenger. Otherwise, the former bouncer Avi ( a Moldovan thug and felon of Turkish appearance) and the former furniture peddler Bibi would not understand the value of life. The Jewish Bolsheviks are unredeemable.

Manon
Guest
Manon

Ukraining accent was detected. Is this you, Groysman?

Tom Welsh
Guest
Tom Welsh

This bears many of the same hallmarks as the cynical assassination of the Su-24 by Turkish F-16s. It was carefully planned, and took every possible advantage of the Russians’ efforts to coordinate and avoid misunderstandings. Just as the Turkish fighter that shot down the Su-24 had been in the air for several hours, just waiting for the chance to stab the Russians in the back, this Israeli attack was obviously designed to make the Syrians shoot down their ally’s aircraft. Unless, of course, it was not a Syrian missile at all. In which case either Israel, France or some other… Read more »

Cicero
Guest
Cicero

The Israelis were sneaky they knew launching an attack close to the spy plane would result in Syrian air defences responding. They used it as cover & unfortunately the servicemen paid the price. This is what happens when you let an aggressor get away time & time again with provocations without doing anything. Israelis took advantage knowing Russia has never responded to any of its numerous attacks. Russia needs to take a firmer stance & impose a no fly zone & shoot anything which is attacking Syria.

Manon
Guest
Manon

Let’s see if there any victims related to Jews in Israel.

spike
Guest
spike

then the blame clearly lies at the feet of the anti-air missile operators…to just launch without checking the area the weapon is launched into is tantamount to deciding to deliberately shoot down the russian a/c

Hes
Guest
Hes

LOL!!! Say shalom to your Hasbara supervisor.

spike
Guest
spike

israel used it as cover and the incompetence of the syrian ad operators did the rest

Hes
Guest
Hes

Shalom, shalom. I love your pathetic Hasbara jooshit.

Mike
Guest
Mike

Jeee! Russia should traget Syria as they are the one that shot down their plane, not Israel!!! What a complete non sense from Russia!

Hes
Guest
Hes

OK, “Mike”. Now you can go to steal something or just suck some blood from goyim child instead of posting this jooshit.

Cat Pillar
Guest
Cat Pillar

Wrap it in plastic – like Kaliningrad. And Crimea.

Cheryl brandon
Guest
Cheryl brandon

My condolences goes out to the 14 pilots/soldiers who were up by Israhell terrorists; They illegally flew into Syrian airspace, attacked Syrians; When the Syrians tried to defend themselves, the Irsahelli criminals placed a Russian jet in harms way; Willfully got 14 pilots killed like they did with the USS Liberty in 1967. RIP UN/International Laws/ ICC!! the Criminals/Bullies defiantly LIE on Arabs again!!

Martha
Guest
Martha

The U.N. (or ‘the one’) and ‘International Laws’ and ‘International con-ventions’ exist to protect the guilty, never the innocent.

7.62x54R
Guest
7.62x54R

How many more times are Russian servicemen going to die because of US-Saudi-Israeli underhandedness and criminality?

A.F.
Guest
A.F.

Lets hope and pray thousands more!

Gazza
Guest
Gazza

Ukropi clown alert…

Hes
Guest
Hes

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to retards!

A.F.
Guest
A.F.

Great news, Assad downed Russian plane, out of humanity! Downed by Russian weapons!

7.62x54R
Guest
7.62x54R

Underhanded Israeli-US deviants have killed another 14 Russian personnel. Too bad the Russians have not realized that they are dealing with lairs and thugs and have not exterminated the US-Israeli invaders’ aircraft. Time to declare that Syrian airspace is closed to NATO and Israeli invaders.

michael
Guest
michael

after this last event….all Israeli aircraft will be shot down immediately….any missiles launched towards Syria will be met with an equal response on military installations in israel….let the war begin….

A.F.
Guest
A.F.

Russians love war, like in Donbass and Crimea.

john vieira
Guest

Pot/kettle…a***hole!!!

Hes
Guest
Hes

Yes, you ukie joos are really funny imbeciles. Now just fuck off!

A.F.
Guest
A.F.

The U.S. Air Force and eight other nations will participate next month in independent Ukraine’s largest aviation exercise, which aims to promote regional security and improve that country’s cooperation with NATO members, the military said Tuesday.

TEP
Guest
TEP

The IL-20 wasnt an ordinary aircraft and these were not ‘crewmen’. This is a huge loss to Russia and Syria – these were highly trained (over 10 years) electronic warfare specialists and the plane included some of the most advanced EW capability on the planet. The Russian military are furious and demanding a response, as are most Russians whilst Putin is trying to calm it all down … there could be a serious rift. So the empire of chaos will be thrilled at such a big Russian EW loss and any rift between Putin and his military and/or electorate would… Read more »

Hes
Guest
Hes

Those devils from IsraHell did it intentionally.

William spence
Guest
William spence

The Israeli complicity in the death of Russian personnel makes Putin look very bad. What can he do to redeem himself!

William spence
Guest
William spence

What next? A false flag poison attack by terrorists in Idlib.

An attack by terrorists across the demilitarized zone of Putin-Erdogan?

Or maybe in Ukraine across that demilitarized zone. They don’t work do they?

Cat Pillar
Guest
Cat Pillar

Israel is directly responsible for the deaths of 15 Russian servicemen and what’s the Russian official response….. “This was reckless.” —- Like they’re naughty adolescent boys! If the pension reform cost Putin 20 points in the polls, what will “reckless and tragic circumstances” do? Another 20? 50? Down to rockbottom? Oh well, his problem but who woulda thought it …. Putin is Netanyahoo’s bìtch. Way to go Little Izzie – obviously there’s more to that upstart postage stamp than I ever thought. Somehow, you have the Russian Federation by the short and curlies. I wonder – will The Duran be… Read more »

Zina
Guest
Zina

Putin je već reagovao, Izrael može nastaviti obarati Ruske avione.

AM Hants
Member
AM Hants

I wonder why the Defence Secretary from the ‘UK’ section of FUKUS, was over in Ukraine, conversing with the Far Right Savages, whilst the ‘F’ section of ‘FUKUS’, was launching missiles on Syria? What have the got planned, over in ‘Hilary’s Mercenary Land’? LUNACY: Kiev’s Plan To Reconquer Crimea – Create Floating Base In Sea Of ​​Azov… https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/lunacy-kievs-plan-to-reconquer-crimea-create-floating-base-in-sea-of-%E2%80%8B%E2%80%8Bazov/ UK Defense Secretary Gavin Williamson the latest Western official to visit the frontline of the war in eastern Ukraine. Photos Ukrainian Joint Forces Operation… https://liveuamap.com/en/2018/19-september-uk-defense-secretary-gavin-williamson-the-latest I do wonder if the UK Government, is just some franchise of the Clinton Foundation? They seem… Read more »

Shaun Ramewe
Guest
Shaun Ramewe

Backfired!! Along come the s-300’s for sovereign anti-terror pro-democracy Syria.

Latest

Defeat in Bavaria delivers knockout punch to Merkel’s tenure as Chancellor (Video)

The Duran – News in Review – Episode 136.

Alex Christoforou

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The stunning CSU defeat in Bavaria means that the coalition partner in Angela Merkel’s government has lost an absolute majority in their worst election results in Bavaria since 1950.

In a preview analysis before the election, Deutsche Welle noted that a CSU collapse could lead to Seehofer’s resignation from Merkel’s government, and conceivably Söder’s exit from the Bavarian state premiership, which would remove two of the chancellor’s most outspoken critics from power, and give her room to govern in the calmer, crisis-free manner she is accustomed to.

On the other hand, a heavy loss and big resignations in the CSU might well push a desperate party in a more volatile, abrasive direction at the national level. That would further antagonize the SPD, the center-left junior partners in Merkel’s coalition, themselves desperate for a new direction and already impatient with Seehofer’s destabilizing antics, and precipitate a break-up of the age-old CDU/CSU alliance, and therefore a break-up of Merkel’s grand coalition. In short: Anything could happen after Sunday, up to and including Merkel’s fall.

The Financial Times reports that the campaign was dominated by the divisive issue of immigration, in a sign of how the shockwaves from Merkel’s disastrous decision to let in more than a million refugees in 2015-16 are continuing to reverberate through German politics and to reshape the party landscape.

The Duran’s Alex Christoforou and Editor-in-Chief Alexander Mercouris discuss the stunning Bavarian election defeat of the CSU party, and the message voters sent to Angela Merkel, the last of the Obama ‘rat pack’ neo-liberal, globalist leaders whose tenure as German Chancellor appears to be coming to an end.

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Follow The Duran Audio Podcast on Soundcloud.

Via Zerohedge

Voters in Germany’s economically dominant southern state of Bavaria delivered a stunning rebuke to the ruling Christian Social Union, in an election that delivered another crushing blow for the parties in Angela Merkel’s grand coalition in Berlin.

With all eyes on Sunday’s Bavaria election, moments ago the first exit polls showed a historic collapse for the ruling CSU party, which has ruled Bavaria continuously since 1957, and which saw its share of the vote collapse from 47.7% in the 2013 election to just 35.5%, losing its absolute majority and suffering its worst result since 1950, as voters defected in their droves to the Greens and the far-right Alternative for Germany.

German newspaper Welt called the election “the most painful election defeat of the past 50 years for the CSU”. As predicted in the polls, the CSU experienced a “historic debacle” in the Bavarian state elections, according to Welt. The CSU was followed by the Greens which soared in the election, more than doubling to 18.5% from 8.6% in 2013, the Free Voters also rose to 11% from 9.0%, in 2013.

Meanwhile, the nationalist AfD are expecting to enter Bavaria’s parliament for the first time ever with 11% of the vote, and as such are setting up for their post-election party. Party leader Alice Weidel already is having the first beer in the small community of Mamming in Lower Bavaria.

Establishment party, left-of-center SPD also saw its support collapse from 20.6% in 2013 to just 10% today.

The full initial results from an ARD exit poll are as follows (via Zerohedge):

  • CSU: 35.5 %
  • Grüne: 18.5 %
  • FW: 11.5 %
  • AfD: 11.0 %
  • SPD: 10.0 %
  • FDP: 5.0 %
  • Linke: 3.5 %
  • Sonstige: 5.0 %

The breakdown by gender did not show any marked variations when it comes to CSU support, although more women voted for the Greens, while far more men supported the AfD:

There was a greater variation by educational level, with highly educated voters tending more towards the green GRÜNE (G/EFA) and liberal FDP (ALDE) then the average, while low/middle educated voters tended more towards CSU (EPP) and AfD (EFDD).

This was the worst result for the CSU since 1950.

Zerohedge further reports that alarmed by the rise of the anti-immigration, populist AfD, the CSU tried to outflank them by talking tough on immigration and picking fights with Ms Merkel over asylum policy.

But the strategy appeared to have backfired spectacularly by alienating tens of thousands of moderate CSU voters and driving them into the arms of the Greens.

Meanwhile, as support the CSU and SPD collapsed, the result confirmed the Greens’ status as the rising force in German politics. Running on a platform of open borders, liberal social values and the fight against climate change the party saw its support surge to 18.5%, from 8.4% in 2013. Meanwhile the AfD won 11%, and for the first time entered the Bavarian regional assembly.

“This is an earthquake for Bavaria,” said Jürgen Falter, a political scientist at the University of Mainz.

The CSU had governed the state with an absolute majority for most of the last 60 years. “It was Bavaria and Bavaria was the CSU. That is now no longer the case.”

The latest collapse of Germany’s establishment parties highlights the shaky ground the grand coalition in Berlin is now resting on as all three parties in the alliance, Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union, the CSU and the SPD, are haemorrhaging support. Some are now questioning whether the coalition, already frayed by personal rivalries and near constant bickering over policy, can survive a full term in office.

“This outcome throws ever more doubt on the future of the grand coalition,” said Heinrich Oberreuter, head of the Passau Journalism Institute and an expert on the CSU. “Based on current polls, if an election were held now, the CDU, CSU and SPD would not even command a majority in the Bundestag.”

The CSU will now be be forced to form a coalition government — a humiliating outcome for a party that has run Bavaria single-handedly for 49 of the last 54 years. Its preference is probably for a three-party coalition with the Free Voters, a small party that is mainly focused on local politics. It could also team up with the Greens, though it would be highly reluctant to do so: the two parties are deeply divided over immigration, transport and environmental policy.

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Elizabeth Warren’s DNA ploy backfires big time (Video)

The Duran Quick Take: Episode 1.

Alex Christoforou

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RT CrossTalk host Peter Lavelle and The Duran’s Alex Christoforou take a quick look at Senator Elizabeth Warren’s ‘genius’ idea to accept POTUS Trump’s ‘Native American DNA’ challenge. Let’s just say that Warren will never recover from this self-inflicted wound.

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The Cherokee Nation issued a statement crushing Elizabeth Warren for her “continued claims of tribal heritage.”

“A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America. Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, who ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is prove. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.

– Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr

Zerohedge reports that Elizabeth Warren just owned herself after releasing a DNA test confirming that she’s as little as 1/1024th Native American – about half the percentage of the average white person.

What’s more, the DNA expert she used, Stanford University professor Carlos Bustamente, “used samples from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia to stand in for Native American” as opposed to, say, DNA from a Cherokee Indian which Warren has claimed to be throughout her career.

Adding to the absurdity are two major corrections by the Boston Globe (which has become the media mouthpiece of Warren’s 2020 damage control efforts of late), letting readers know that “Due to a math error, a story about Elizabeth Warren misstated the ancestry percentage of a potential 10th generation relative. It should be 1/1,024,” and later updating it to “between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American.”

Adding to the absurdity are two major corrections by the Boston Globe (which has become the media mouthpiece of Warren’s 2020 damage control efforts of late), letting readers know that “Due to a math error, a story about Elizabeth Warren misstated the ancestry percentage of a potential 10th generation relative. It should be 1/1,024,” and later updating it to “between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American.”

Elizabeth Warren’s got trolled by Trump in the most epic fashion, pushing the Senator to make a blunder that will follow her for the rest of her career.

The Daily Caller’s Benny Johnson exposed Elizabeth Warren’s history of lies in 10 simple tweets…

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Hillary Clinton: Democrats have been TOO CIVIL with GOP (VIDEO)

Civil war becomes more likely as Clinton calls for greater civil unrest after weeks of absolutely insane behavior from leftist activists.

Seraphim Hanisch

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Former presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton just called for an end to civil behavior towards Republicans and conservatives. In an interview with Christiane Amanpour of CNN expanded on in a piece by USA Today, the failed candidate had this to say:

“You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about… That’s why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and / or the Senate, that’s when civility can start again.”

Clinton said that Senate Republicans under Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., “demeaned the confirmation process” and “insulted and attacked” Christine Blasey Ford – who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee about a sexual assault she alleges Kavanaugh committed in 1982 – along with other “women who were speaking out.”

It should be pointed out here that Clinton told a lie. The Senate Republicans did everything possible to hear out Dr Ford’s testimony, and no one has gone on record with any sort of insults or demeaning comments about her. Every Republican Senator who stated anything agreed that something happened to her, but they also agreed that there was no corroboration showing that Judge Kavanaugh was actually involved in any misdoings. USA Today’s piece continues:

Clinton compared the handling of Kavanaugh’s confirmation to “Republican operatives shutting down the voting in 2000,” the “swift-boating of John Kerry,” attacks on former Arizona Sen. John McCain in the 2000 Republican primary and “what they did to me for 25 years.

“When you’re dealing with an ideological party that is driven by the lust for power, that is funded by corporate interests who want a government that does its bidding, you can be civil but you can’t overcome what they intend to do unless you win elections,” she told Amanpour.

Clinton compared Kavanaugh’s swearing-in ceremony at the White House on Monday to a “political rally” that “further undermined the image and integrity of the court.”

She told Amanpour the effect on the court “troubles” and “saddens” her “because our judicial system has been viewed as one of the main pillars of our constitutional government.”

“But the President’s been true to form,” Clinton added. “He has insulted, attacked, demeaned women throughout the campaign – really for many years leading up to the campaign. And he’s continued to do that inside the White House.”

Here, Clinton told at least two more incendiary whoppers.

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First, no one has been specifically after her, and second, President Donald Trump’s record with women including in the White House has been nothing short of stellar and gentlemanly. Nikki Haley, who supported Marco Rubio in the 2016 campaign and has at times been openly critical of Donald Trump, yesterday announced her full support of his 2020 campaign and her intent to campaign with and for him.

By all accounts, Mrs. Haley is a woman.

The first American Civil War had economic policy and states’ rights as its central focus. Slavery was a part of that issue, though slavery was practiced in the North as well in the South before this war began.

Now a new civil war is coming, but perhaps it should be called the American Social War. It is not about any real policy matter at all. It is hysteria, but it appears to be hysteria with a purpose.

The first American Social War has two apparent sides and allying forces and groups:

The Left:

  • pro-gay marriage
  • pro-death (in other words, pro-abortion)
  • anti-Christian, especially Christianity that says these first two issues are wrong
  • anti-GOP / Republican / Conservative
  • “victim class” – feminists, some millenials
  • supporters of legalized use of mind-altering / mood-altering drugs
  • appears to support overreaching socialist style government, featuring “fair” wages, such as a $15.oo minimum wage
  • anti-traditionalist
  • Mainstream media is strongly allied here
  • George Soros is a supporter
  • social media outlets, like Facebook and Twitter are supporters through “scrubbing” of media content
  • anti-white, anti-male, and if you are white, male and Christian, look out. You are Enemy Number One
  • supports and executes violence against all these people they are against, including family members.
  • very zealous, and very monolithic in terms of alignment and energy

The Right:

  • Conservatives
  • people who generally want the government to leave them alone
  • generally favors life, considering abortion tragic and to be avoided, though some consider that it should be made illegal
  • marriage has always been between one man and one woman and it should not be redefined to fit the whims of a few
  • God is sovereign (though many conservatives would never make this connection)
  • No real animus against the left, but at the same time, fed up with being hectored by the left all the time, as we saw in Senator Lindsey Graham’s explosive confrontation against Senate Democrats
  • Generally Republican by party affiliation, though many libertarian and conservatives are also present as well as a number of conservative democrats.
  • seeks to avoid violence. While there do exist a very few neo-Nazi types, their numbers are infinitesimal, and their behavior is rejected by the Right
  •  generally against drug use, though many have unfortunately moderated on the matter of actual illegality

The main characteristic of this approaching war, as stated before, is little more than some sort of outrage over identity politics and perceived victimization. This is something both new and old, as there is always a party in any war that claims that they are fighting because they are in fact the aggrieved party, under the other side’s aggression and suppression.

That factor exists with this war too. However, the reality of that aggression or suppression is that it does not exist, and this makes it very difficult for the “perceived aggressors” to ramp up the zeal needed to carry out the fight.

This factor is often very maddening for conservative people. As a whole they do not wish to fight. They wish to be left alone. The left on the other hand insists that everything must be fought for because the right has somehow managed to take it away from them, or is keeping it away from them.

This is purely fiction but it is almost impossible to convince a leftist that this is so. Tucker Carlson expands on this matter in this report. He makes reference at 6:37 about how Hillary Rodham Clinton is now openly calling for civility to the GOP to end (as if it hasn’t already!), but the entirety of this report begs to be seen to give perspective to the look and feel of this crisis:

This is unfamiliar territory in many ways, and it is unclear how far this will go. But one this is clear: it is testing all available limits, and it may come to real fighting, and real killing, for no reason better than perceived victimization.

It should be understood that the advocates for violence are all people that reject God and traditional values openly. There is certainly a connection.

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