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Russia’s S-300 vs. Israel’s new F-35 in Syria: Who wins in a shootout?

Even without the full Block 3F capability immediately available, Tel Aviv’s F-35 fleet would offer the Israel Defense Force a potent capability to strike against Syria’s newly acquired S-300s, certainly a better capability than offered by any conventional fighter. However, there is little prospect that Israel would attack those batteries while the Russians still more or less have those weapons under their direct control.

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Russia has delivered the formidable S-300 air and missile defense system to Syria.

However, it will still take several months for Syrian crews to learn how to operate the sophisticated air defense system under Russian tutelage. In the meantime, the weapons are almost certainly going to be operated by Russian military advisors.

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The presence of Russian forces means that Tel Aviv might be temporarily constrained against striking at those S-300 missile batteries, if it were so inclined. But in strictly military terms, the presence of those weapons does not necessarily limit Israel’s ability to do so. Israel’s new fleet of stealthy Lockheed Martin F-35I Adir versions of the Joint Strike Fighter afford Tel Aviv the ability to defeat the S-300 with relative ease.

“The operational abilities of the air force are such that those (S-300) batteries really do not constrain the air force’s abilities to act,” Tzachi Hanegbi, Israel’s regional cooperation minister, told Israel’s Army Radio reports the Reuters news agency . “You know that we have stealth fighters, the best planes in the world. These batteries are not even able to detect them.”

One of the F-35’s primary missions from its very inception has been the suppression (SEAD) and destruction (DEAD) of advanced enemy air defenses such as the S-300. Indeed, the F-35 will only become more formidable in the SEAD/DEAD role as time goes on and the aircraft is upgraded with the full operational capability Block 3F and subsequent Block 4 software and hardware configurations. Tel Aviv declared its F-35soperational in December 2017  and recently signed an agreement in February with Lockheed Martin to incorporate Israeli specific modifications to bring its planned 50-aircraft fleet to a Block 3F+ configuration by December 2021.

Even without the full Block 3F capability immediately available, Tel Aviv’s F-35 fleet would offer the Israel Defense Force a potent capability to strike against Syria’s newly acquired S-300s, certainly a better capability than offered by any conventional fighter. However, there is little prospect that Israel would attack those batteries while the Russian still more or less have those weapons under their direct control.

According to the Russians, it will take roughly three months for them to train Syrian S-300 air defense crews. “We have finished personnel recruitment and have begun to train them,” Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Tuesday according to the TASS news agency.

Shoigu also officially confirmed that the Russians have delivered the S-300 to Syria. “In conformity with the presidential decision, we have begun to carry out a number of measures to reinforce Syria’s air defense systems in order to ensure better protection for our servicemen,” Shoigu said. “We have completed the delivery of S-300 systems. It included 49 pieces of equipment, including radars, control vehicles and four launchers.”

While the Syrian forces are being trained, Russian forces are likely to retain control of the S-300s and operate those weapons under their direct supervision. Such an arrangement should prevent any rash actions by Syrian forces and also put a brake on any Israeli plans to strike at the missile batteries.

However, the Israelis might consider eliminating those S-300 batteries if the Russian do in fact hand them over to Syrian control. That is not a foregone conclusion given that it was Assad’s poorly trained and motivated air defense crews who shot down the Russian Il-20M Coot intelligence-gathering aircraft on September 18 , sparking the current tensions in the first place.

The presence of additional Russian-made S-300 batteries in Syria complicates matters for both the United States and Israel. Washington decried the Russian move as escalatory. “I’m certainly not going to comment on our intention on how we will address that, but my comments before were true,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told reporters on Oct. 3 .

Via The National Interest

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rucabsamsinRichard Steven HackevaldNexus789 Recent comment authors
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Bob Valdez
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Bob Valdez

Oh, please. f35’s are NOT invisible, Russian multi-band radar easily “sees” so-called “stealth” aircraft. The author over-rates the f35 as able to “kill S300’s”. If S200’s can bring down the f35, S300’s will have no problem.

Tom Welsh
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Tom Welsh

As Major-General Konashenkov warned two years ago, “… all the illusions of amateurs about the existence of ‘invisible’ jets will face a disappointing reality”.

https://yournewswire.com/wo

Nexus789
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Nexus789

Good point. What people don’t realize is that the Jolly Stupid Fighter is an old plane. It’s so called stealth profile was based on defeating late 90’s radar technology. So while the airframe remains static radar technology has developed considerably.

JNDillard
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JNDillard

Ha ha ha ha! This reads like it was written by the sales promotion team for a combination of the F-35 and “Buy Israeli Bonds!” Ha ha ha ha ha! This article is for dolts who know nothing. For a review of the capabilities of each side worth reading, Go here, and also read some of the accompanying posts, a few of which are quite good and detailed: http://thesaker.is/s-300s-and-other-military-hardware-for-syria/

bsamsin
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bsamsin

It’s no wonder, since majumdar pimps for the National Interest, which was co-founded by Ashkenazi/American “godfather of the NeoCon movement” Irving Kristol, and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Irving was also the daddy of Bill Kristol, who co-founded the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), which enable USreal to begin their non-stop “war against terror” fraud.

Donna
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Donna

The world needs to remember that it is Israel, not Syria, who is starting this illegal and inhumane war. And, true to form, the Israelis are kicking Syria while it’s down — while it is attempting to recover from a devastating war against terrorists. What Israel is doing is a naked act of aggression, and if the hypocritical US wasn’t blocking every measure in the Security Council, perhaps the UN could put a stop to this violation of international law. And no one is fooled by Israel’s claim that it’s bombing Syria to stop Iran. Israel is bombing Syria because… Read more »

Dr. George W. Oprisko
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The F-22 & F-35 are optimized for X band radar, which is commonly used in aircraft and missile targeting systems. The S-300 family use longer wavelengths which detect such aircraft at long ranges, ditto for the supporting AAA systems which accompany and protect the S-300 batteries, such as the Pantsyr. This piece is propagandistic fluff. Also, were the Israelis bold enough to mount the attack, counter fire from SAA, IRGC, RuAF, or Hezbollah, could target the base from which the attack was mounted and/or to which the aircraft intended to return, at any level from simply cratering the runway, to… Read more »

Normski
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Normski

Just like their US friends, I don’t think the Israeli’s have the capacity to think things through properly!.

pogohere
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pogohere

See: Comment #43: (very detailed, links to open source US mil docs)

“The idea of ‘stealth’ aircraft is in fact mostly a gimmick designed to enrich the military contractors…it doesn’t actually work very well at all, as proved in 1999 when the Serb air defense, using ancient Soviet surface to air missiles of 1950s vintage, shot down the USAF F117 aircraft…and damaged another that was then written off, and therefore counts as a kill…”

http://www.unz.com/tsaker/s-300s-and-other-military-hardware-for-syria/#comment-2558132

Normski
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Normski

All the Syrian military require to see these “stealth” F-35 “wonder aircraft” are a decent pair of binoculars!. There’s no substitute for the “mark 1” eyeball!.

AM Hants
Member
AM Hants

British troops also recently held their biggest military exercise in 10 years, which included six navy ships and more than 5,000 troops in the Omani desert, to prepare for a confrontation with unconventional Russian forces like those used in Crimea. Cyber weapons are seen as a potential deterrent and a way to avoid a direct military confrontation… Russia held an exercise with 300,000 Forces (the UK has only around 125,000 serving military personnel). 36,000 land vehicles, including tanks and air defence systems. 1,000 military aircrafts, plus, 80 ships and submarines. 15 October 2018 there is an OPCW meeting, where those… Read more »

AM Hants
Member
AM Hants

Sorry, this reply, relates to:

LATEST RUSSIAFEED NEWSBritain prepares for WAR with Russia in cyber attack drills
Sabre-rattling by Great Britain continues to vilify and demonize Russia without proof or cause while evading any attempts at resolution…

bsamsin
Guest
bsamsin

drool, Brittania, the mighty Empire is growing senile 🙂

bsamsin
Guest
bsamsin

now, that’s all well and good, but the more important question in this modern era, is “what will their dress code be?”
I’m just curious, since your British institutions have greatly confused me during the course of this year, what with some curious mandates 🙂

1) a British school made shorts illegal, but skirts mandatory for boys?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-04/uk-secondary-school-forces-boys-soccer-team-wear-skirts-instead-shorts

2) and then, some British schools, made skirts illegal for girls !!!
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-03/uk-secondary-schools-ban-skirts-accommodate-trans-students

Pray tell … what the heck is going on in the land of the stiff upper lip?

Mike
Guest
Mike

Common on Israel, test the skies.

Klink
Guest
Klink

If the Jews were to attack the S300’s the targets for the Russians are unlimited.
The jews submarines for example, the US took one out after the Jews attacked the USS Liberty any killed scores of Americans…

Thraxite
Guest
Thraxite

This Author does not seem to have done much homework on the actual characteristics of the aircraft vs the S-300. The F-35 is no better than other legacy craft when attempting to penetrate the actively phased array radar which is equivalent to the Aegis system that has to fit on a destroyer for the West. This technical report on the abilities of the S-300 is well worth the read.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Grumble-Gargoyle.html

ruca
Guest
ruca

You are correct sir. And yes ausairpower.net is quite a good site.

evald
Guest
evald

Dave Majumdar and “National Interest” … are you serious?

Richard Steven Hack
Guest
Richard Steven Hack

As usual, The National Interest overrates the F-35. People forget that not only does Russia has the S-300, they also have the S-400 at its base with more advanced radars as well as surveillance planes that can see all of Israel’s airfields. All of this is tied into the Syrian air defense network. As for the poorly trained and motivated Syrian operators, they had the Israeli F-16’s in their sights and only when those F-16’s hid behind the Russian surveillance prop plane did they evade the S-200 – and that only because the S-200 didn’t have the IFF “friend or… Read more »

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Some Russian monarchists want Tsar Vladimir Putin

Latest news from Russian monarchists highlight the debate over bringing the Russian Empire back to life in modern times.

Seraphim Hanisch

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A December 13 report in The Wall Street Journal shone light on a notion that has been afoot in the Russian Federation since the fall of Communism in 1991 – the restoration of the Monarchy as the form of government, complete with a new Tsar of all the Russias.

Of course, some of these monarchists have a top contender in mind for that post, none other than President Vladimir Putin himself.

This idea has long been used in a pejorative light in the West, as various shadowy and not-so-shadowy elements in the American media speculated over the years that Mr. Putin was actually aspiring to become Tsar. This was thrown around until probably the time that the Russian president spoke, lamenting the fall of Communism, and since then the prime accusation has been that President Putin wants to bring back the Soviet Union.

This is not true. It also does not appear to be the case that the Russian president wants to be Tsar. But the monarchists are not fazed in the slightest. Here is excerpted material from the WSJ piece, with emphases added:

The last time term limits forced Russian leader Vladimir Putin to step down from the presidency, he became prime minister for a few years.

This time around, a group of pro-Kremlin activists have a different idea: Proclaim him Czar Vladimir.

“We will do everything possible to make sure Putin stays in power as long as possible,” Konstantin Malofeyev, a politically active businessman, said recently to thunderous applause from hundreds of Russian Orthodox priests and members of the country’s top political parties gathered at a conference outside Moscow. They were united by one cause—to return the monarchy to Russia…

Even among those who want a monarchy, however, there are splits over what kind it should be. Is an absolute monarchy better than a constitutional monarchy? Should a blood line be established or should the czar be elected? For those who favor male succession, would it be a problem that Mr. Putin reportedly only has two daughters? Some have even suggested others besides Mr. Putin should accede to the throne.

There is a very keen interest indeed among some in Russia that propose various options as to who might best become Tsar in the event that the Monarchy is restored.

Grand Duke George Mikhailovich Romanov and his mother, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna of Russia, together with Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev, head of the Russian Orthodox Church Department of External Relations

One candidate that has received significant attention is a man by the name of George Mikhailovich Romanov. He is an actual member of the Royal family, the heir apparent to Maria Vladimirovna Romanova, Grand Duchess of Russia. There are other heir apparents as well, and the issue as to who it should be has not been settled among the surviving members of the Romanov family.

The restoration of the Russian monarchy is unique because to carries strong religious significance. As far back as the 8th and 9th centuries, A.D., a host of saints and prophets appear to have foreseen the advent of the Soviet times and the restoration of the Tsar after their conclusion.

Some such prophecies are attributed to anonymous sources, but some are named. Here are two with rather extensive editing, so please go to the site linked for the fullest description of the prophecies.

Monk Abel the Prophet (+1831).

In a conversation with Tsar Paul I (+1801), after prophesying the destinies of all the Tsars from Paul I to Nicholas II:

“What is impossible for man is possible for God. God delays with His help, but it is said that He will give it soon and will raise the horn of Russian salvation. And there will arise a great prince from your race in exile, who stands for the sons of his people. He will be a chosen one of God, and on his head will be blessing. He will be the only one comprehensible to all, the very heart of Russia will sense him. His appearance will be sovereign and radiant, and nobody will say: ‘The Tsar is here or there’, but all will say: ‘That is him’. The will of the people will submit to the mercy of God, and he himself will confirm his calling. His name has occurred three times in Russian history. Two of the same name have already been on the throne, but not on the Tsar’s throne. But he will sit on the Tsar’s throne as the third. In him will be the salvation and happiness of the Russian realm.”

“Russian hopes will be realized upon [the cathedral of Hagia] Sophia in Tsargrad [Constantinople]; the Orthodox Cross will gleam again; Holy Rus will be filled with the smoke of incense and prayer, and will blossom like a heavenly lily.”

And from one of the most famous saints in Russian history:

St. John of Kronstadt (+1908):

“I foresee the restoration of a powerful Russia, still stronger and mightier than before. On the bones of these martyrs, remember, as on a strong foundation, will the new Russia we built – according to the old model; strong in her faith in Christ God and in the Holy Trinity! And there will be, in accordance with the covenant of the holy Prince Vladimir, a single Church! Russian people have ceased to understand what Rus is: it is the footstool of the Lord’s Throne! The Russian person must understand this and thank God that he is Russian.”

“The Church will remain unshaken to the end of the age, and a Monarch of Russia, if he remains faithful to the Orthodox Church, will be established on the Throne of Russia until the end of the age.”

What may surprise those in the West is that there are a great many people in Russia and in Orthodox Christian countries in general who take these prophecies quite seriously.

Interestingly enough, when the idea of restoring the monarchy was brought to President Putin’s attention, he regarded the idea as “beautiful” according to Lt. General Leonid Reshetnikov, but also expressed concern that it would lead to stagnation within the country.

A second statement, this one by Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, noted that President Putin does not like the idea of bringing back the monarchy, but offered no comment on the conversation with Mr. Reshetnikov.

The idea of restoring the monarchy is not completely absurd. Britain overthrew its own monarchy in 1649 during that country’s Civil War, but it was restored shortly afterwards under King Charles II. Spain cast aside its monarchy in 1931, with its king, Alfonso XIII going into exile, but after sixteen years this monarchy, too, was restored.

Both of these monarchies have become largely ceremonial, with most governing functions carried out through some kind of Parliament and Prime Minister. It is therefore not clear what a ruling monarchy in Russia would look like.

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US confirms pullout from INF treaty, Moscow will respond if missiles placed in Europe – deputy FM

Moscow will respond to possible attempts to place short and intermediate range nuclear-capable missiles in Europe if the US decides to go on with this plan.

RT

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Washington has confirmed its decision to withdraw from the INF treaty is final, Russia’s deputy foreign minister said, adding that Moscow will ‘take measures’ if American missiles that threaten its security are placed in Europe.

“Washington publicly announced its plans to withdraw from the treaty (the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces) already in October. Through the high-level bilateral channels it was confirmed to us that this decision was final and wasn’t an attempt to initiate dialogue,” Sergey Ryabkov told the Kommersant newspaper.

The Deputy FM said that Moscow will respond to possible attempts to place short and intermediate range nuclear-capable missiles in Europe if the US decides to go on with this plan.

“We’ll be forced to come up with effective compensating measures. I’d like to warn against pushing the situation towards the eruption of new ‘missile crises.’ I am convinced that no sane country could be interested in something like this,” he said.

Russia isn’t threatening anybody, but have the necessary strength and means to counter any aggressor.
Back in October, President Donald Trump warned that Washington was planning unilateral withdrawal from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty because “Russia has not adhered to the agreement.” The US leader also promised that the country would keep boosting its nuclear arsenal until Russia and China “come to their senses.”

Earlier this month, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced that Washington will suspend its obligations under the treaty within 60 days if Russia does not “return to compliance.”

Signed in late 1988, the INF agreement was considered a milestone in ending the arms race between the US and the USSR.

In recent years, Moscow and Washington have repeatedly accused each other of violating the INF deal. While the US has alleged that Russia has developed missiles prohibited by the treaty, Russia insists that the American anti-missile systems deployed in Eastern Europe can actually be used to launch intermediate-range cruise missiles.

The deputy FM said that Washington “never made a secret” of the fact that its INF treaty pullout “wasn’t so much about problems between the US and Russia, but about the desire of the Americans to get rid of all restrictions that were inconvenient for them.”

The US side expressed belief that the INF deal “significantly limits the US military’s capabilities to counter states with arsenals of medium-range and shorter-range ground-based missiles,” which threaten American interests, he said. “China, Iran and North Korea” were specifically mentioned by Washington, Ryabkov added.

“I don’t think that we’re talking about a new missile crisis, but the US plans are so far absolutely unclear,” Mikhail Khodarenok, retired colonel and military expert, told RT, reminding that the Americans have avoided any type of “meaningful discussion” with Moscow in regards to its INF deal pullout.

While “there’ll be no deployment of [US missiles] in Europe any time soon,” Moscow should expect that Washington would try to void other agreements with Russia as well, Khodarenok warned.

The INF deal “just stopped being beneficial for the US. Next up are all the other arms control treaties. There’ll be no resistance from the NATO allies [to US actions],” he said.

“The neocons who run Trump’s foreign policy never have liked arms reduction treaties,” former Pentagon official Michael Maloof told RT. “The new START treaty which comes up for renewal also could be in jeopardy.”

“The risk of a new nuclear buildup is really quite obvious” if the US withdrawals from the INF treaty, Dan Smith, the director of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, told RT.

“I think the relations between the great powers – the US and Russia as well as the US and China – are more difficult than they’ve been for a long time,” he added.

However, with Washington having indicated that it wants China to be part of the new deal, “there are still possibilities for negotiations and agreement,” according to Smith. Nonetheless, he warned that following this path will demand strong political will and tactical thinking from the leadership of all three countries.

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US Pressures Germany To Ditch Huawei Over ‘Security Concerns’

This news will likely not go over well in Beijing, which is still struggling with the US and Canada over the arrest of Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou in Vancouver.

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Via Zerohedge


First it was Australia, New Zealand and Japan, now the US is pressing the German government to refuse to use equipment manufactured by Chinese telecom giant Huawei as Europe’s largest economy seeks to build out its 5G infrastructure.

According to Bloomberg, a US delegation met on Friday with German Foreign Ministry officials in Berlin to talk about the security risks presented by Huawei’s equipment, which the US says is vulnerable to spying. The meeting in Germany follows a report from late last month claiming the US had launched an “extraordinary outreach campaign” to warn its allies against using Huawei equipment (while its vulnerability to Chinese spying has been cited as the reason to avoid Huawei, it’s also worth noting that the US and China are locked in a battle for who will dominate the global 5G space…a battle that Huawei is currently winning).

Germany is set to hold an auction early next year to find a supplier to help expand its 5G network. The Berlin meeting took place one day after Deutsche Telekom said it would reexamine its decision to use Huawei equipment.

US officials are optimistic that their warnings are getting a hearing, though any detailed talks are in early stages and no concrete commitments have been made, according to one of the people.

The US pressure on Germany underscores increased scrutiny of Huawei as governments grapple with fears that the telecom-equipment maker’s gear is an enabler for Chinese espionage. The Berlin meeting took place a day after German carrier Deutsche Telekom AG said it will re-evaluate its purchasing strategy on Huawei, an indication that it may drop the Chinese company from its list of network suppliers.

France is also reportedly considering further restrictions after adding Huawei products to its “high alert” list. The US has already passed a ban preventing government agencies from using anything made by Huawei. But the telecoms equipment provider isn’t taking these threats to its business lying down.

U.S. warnings over espionage are a delicate matter in Germany. Revelations over the scale of the National Security Agency’s signals intelligence, including reports of tapping Merkel’s mobile phone, are still fresh in Berlin five years after they came to light.

Huawei is pushing back against the accusations. The company’s rotating chairman warned this week that blacklisting the Chinese company without proof will hurt the industry and disrupt the emergence of new wireless technology globally. Ken Hu, speaking at a Huawei manufacturing base in Dongguan, cited “groundless speculation,” in some of the first public comments since the shock arrest of the company’s chief financial officer.

This news will likely not go over well in Beijing, which is still struggling with the US and Canada over the arrest of Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou in Vancouver. In an editorial published Sunday, the Global Times, an English-language mouthpiece for the Communist Party, warned that China should retaliate against any country that – like Australia – takes a hard line against Huawei. So, if you’re a German citizen in Beijing, you might want to consider getting the hell out of Dodge.

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